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	<title>Comments on: The Myth of Goal Setting</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/</link>
	<description>More Clients in Less Time, Even if You Hate Selling</description>
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		<title>By: Tim Mushey</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-5561</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Mushey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 03:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-5561</guid>
		<description>Wow what a great article Ian, and subsequent discussion. You certainly got everyone chatting about this topic. Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow what a great article Ian, and subsequent discussion. You certainly got everyone chatting about this topic. Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Lee - I am certain &quot;Sales Trainer&quot; - my friend Karl Goldfield - was either being sarcastic, or was drunk for his first post!

Regarding the Reticular Activating System - another friend, Craig Elias talks about it in slightly different terms on his blog Shift Selling: http://www.shiftselling.com/2008/04/29/trigger-events-and-selective-perception/

All interesting stuff.

Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee &#8211; I am certain &#8220;Sales Trainer&#8221; &#8211; my friend Karl Goldfield &#8211; was either being sarcastic, or was drunk for his first post!</p>
<p>Regarding the Reticular Activating System &#8211; another friend, Craig Elias talks about it in slightly different terms on his blog Shift Selling: <a href="http://www.shiftselling.com/2008/04/29/trigger-events-and-selective-perception/" rel="nofollow">http://www.shiftselling.com/2008/04/29/trigger-events-and-selective-perception/</a></p>
<p>All interesting stuff.</p>
<p>Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Duncan</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Ian,

Congrats on writing a thread that&#039;s really got people engaged.

To Brad - the Crest study, and other similar ones for not-quite pharmaceutical products are promoted as if they&#039;ve gone through huge studies.

The facts behind them are actually quite scary - often the sample they use is between 30-150 total respondents.

I can remember the facts behind one study, when you read the small print, said they&#039;d asked something like 114 people.  Not something I&#039;d trust to base my judgement on.

The best advice for toothcare products?  Ask your dentist!

Back on the topic of goals, early this week I decided to make my business 100% referral based by the end of the year.

To make it work in terms of keeping my diary full,  I&#039;d like this to build a large client bank plus a waiting list of clients for my services too.

I decided on the goal on Monday.  On Tuesday, a client was asking me the best way to refer me.

Today, a client rang and told me that &quot;I&#039;ve got 3 3 clients for you, and I&#039;m working on another one too.&quot;

Meanwhile, at a new client today, just as I was leaving, I was told, &quot;Oh, I&#039;ve referred you to a friend in Oxford who could really use your help...&quot;

I know on the face of it, that this may seem like coincidence.  However, having done this for some time, I&#039;ve never had so many referrals from so many people.

Clearly by having the goal on my mind, I&#039;m oozing some kind of referral-magnet hormone that&#039;s working!

I&#039;ve seen this time and time again, in myself and especially in clients. I think it&#039;s down to subconsciously positioning ourselves to achieve the goal if we&#039;re really committed to it.

In psychology, they call it the Reticular Activating System.  It&#039;s the bit of our brains that guides us to see the things we&#039;re looking for.

Interesting stuff,

Oh, and Sales Trainer - I&#039;m surprised that your are so quick to dispel people who use facts when they talk.  I like to make sure that some of their facts tie up with things I already know, then listen carefully to learn new stuff too.

It seems to me that an open mind is far more likely to learn and usefully apply new ideas than one that&#039;s made it&#039;s mind up based on a superficial rule with no real basis.  Or have I misunderstood what you wrote (or perhaps over-reacted to a bit of sarcasm)?

Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian,</p>
<p>Congrats on writing a thread that&#8217;s really got people engaged.</p>
<p>To Brad &#8211; the Crest study, and other similar ones for not-quite pharmaceutical products are promoted as if they&#8217;ve gone through huge studies.</p>
<p>The facts behind them are actually quite scary &#8211; often the sample they use is between 30-150 total respondents.</p>
<p>I can remember the facts behind one study, when you read the small print, said they&#8217;d asked something like 114 people.  Not something I&#8217;d trust to base my judgement on.</p>
<p>The best advice for toothcare products?  Ask your dentist!</p>
<p>Back on the topic of goals, early this week I decided to make my business 100% referral based by the end of the year.</p>
<p>To make it work in terms of keeping my diary full,  I&#8217;d like this to build a large client bank plus a waiting list of clients for my services too.</p>
<p>I decided on the goal on Monday.  On Tuesday, a client was asking me the best way to refer me.</p>
<p>Today, a client rang and told me that &#8220;I&#8217;ve got 3 3 clients for you, and I&#8217;m working on another one too.&#8221;</p>
<p>Meanwhile, at a new client today, just as I was leaving, I was told, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;ve referred you to a friend in Oxford who could really use your help&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I know on the face of it, that this may seem like coincidence.  However, having done this for some time, I&#8217;ve never had so many referrals from so many people.</p>
<p>Clearly by having the goal on my mind, I&#8217;m oozing some kind of referral-magnet hormone that&#8217;s working!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen this time and time again, in myself and especially in clients. I think it&#8217;s down to subconsciously positioning ourselves to achieve the goal if we&#8217;re really committed to it.</p>
<p>In psychology, they call it the Reticular Activating System.  It&#8217;s the bit of our brains that guides us to see the things we&#8217;re looking for.</p>
<p>Interesting stuff,</p>
<p>Oh, and Sales Trainer &#8211; I&#8217;m surprised that your are so quick to dispel people who use facts when they talk.  I like to make sure that some of their facts tie up with things I already know, then listen carefully to learn new stuff too.</p>
<p>It seems to me that an open mind is far more likely to learn and usefully apply new ideas than one that&#8217;s made it&#8217;s mind up based on a superficial rule with no real basis.  Or have I misunderstood what you wrote (or perhaps over-reacted to a bit of sarcasm)?</p>
<p>Lee</p>
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		<title>By: Ford Harding</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Ford Harding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Ian:

Thanks for debunking this myth.  I have been passing it on for years. Both embarrassed and relieved, I can now stop.

Ford</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian:</p>
<p>Thanks for debunking this myth.  I have been passing it on for years. Both embarrassed and relieved, I can now stop.</p>
<p>Ford</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Trnavsky</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Trnavsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Ian, I am having a great time watching you debunk myths. I have always thought it was silly that simply writing down goals would make you more likely to achieve them. In order to help at all you need to make sure you are actually monitoring those goals and actively taking steps to move towards them. I wrote a blog post on goal setting the other day and while I did not quote the infamous Yale study I did support the idea of writing down your goals. Thankfully I am assuming that the purpose of this post was not to debunk the idea of writing down, tracking and monitoring goals but rather to make a excellent point on the need to check facts before quoting studies.
I am a big fan of checking out studies and reading the fine print. My favorite stats to make fun of are the ones in commercials. Take 9 out of 10 dentist prefer Crest. Its really only meaningful when you know what the other options are. Wood chips? ground cement? Ok, I&#039;m being a bit extreme here, but like others have said there is a lot to be learned by reading the details of a study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, I am having a great time watching you debunk myths. I have always thought it was silly that simply writing down goals would make you more likely to achieve them. In order to help at all you need to make sure you are actually monitoring those goals and actively taking steps to move towards them. I wrote a blog post on goal setting the other day and while I did not quote the infamous Yale study I did support the idea of writing down your goals. Thankfully I am assuming that the purpose of this post was not to debunk the idea of writing down, tracking and monitoring goals but rather to make a excellent point on the need to check facts before quoting studies.<br />
I am a big fan of checking out studies and reading the fine print. My favorite stats to make fun of are the ones in commercials. Take 9 out of 10 dentist prefer Crest. Its really only meaningful when you know what the other options are. Wood chips? ground cement? Ok, I&#8217;m being a bit extreme here, but like others have said there is a lot to be learned by reading the details of a study.</p>
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		<title>By: sales training</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>sales training</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-106</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian, a great reminder to all of us in the training and development field that what we teach really matters! I&#039;m a naturally skeptical person, so  your post makes me very happy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian, a great reminder to all of us in the training and development field that what we teach really matters! I&#8217;m a naturally skeptical person, so  your post makes me very happy!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Rohrer</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Rohrer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-105</guid>
		<description>I love that you are debunking myths!  So many of us simply believe statistics and &quot;facts&quot; that have been quoted by credible sources.  Not too long ago, there was a tornado in downtown Atlanta that damaged the GA Dome (a massive, enclosed stadium).  A few days later, I was watching TV when some sports announcers made the statement that the GA Dome had sustained $150 million in damage!  They said this as if it were fact but for it to be true the dome would have to be nearly leveled.  Turns out the damage estimate was for the entirety of downtown Atlanta.  Not an insignificant difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that you are debunking myths!  So many of us simply believe statistics and &#8220;facts&#8221; that have been quoted by credible sources.  Not too long ago, there was a tornado in downtown Atlanta that damaged the GA Dome (a massive, enclosed stadium).  A few days later, I was watching TV when some sports announcers made the statement that the GA Dome had sustained $150 million in damage!  They said this as if it were fact but for it to be true the dome would have to be nearly leveled.  Turns out the damage estimate was for the entirety of downtown Atlanta.  Not an insignificant difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-104</guid>
		<description>Lol - I&#039;m now trying to dig up some statistics on &quot;how much has Karl had to drink before posting....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol &#8211; I&#8217;m now trying to dig up some statistics on &#8220;how much has Karl had to drink before posting&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sales trainer</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>sales trainer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Fact: I discredit people that spew facts

Fact: No one can say with 100% certainty that any survey provides statistics that are factual unless that survey includes the planet. Even if the Yale study were true, who is to say the in 1954 or at Cambridge, the people who did not write down goals did not put a whooping financial on the goal setters. What if someone wrote down the goal of curing the ill, would that effect the survey. You bet your northern soil.

Fact: Consultants, by and large, talk out of their backside. Why? Because they are used to people listening to them.

Fact: I am now spewing facts, therefore in accordance with fact #1, have been discredited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact: I discredit people that spew facts</p>
<p>Fact: No one can say with 100% certainty that any survey provides statistics that are factual unless that survey includes the planet. Even if the Yale study were true, who is to say the in 1954 or at Cambridge, the people who did not write down goals did not put a whooping financial on the goal setters. What if someone wrote down the goal of curing the ill, would that effect the survey. You bet your northern soil.</p>
<p>Fact: Consultants, by and large, talk out of their backside. Why? Because they are used to people listening to them.</p>
<p>Fact: I am now spewing facts, therefore in accordance with fact #1, have been discredited.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Brodie &#124; Professional Services Business Development Consulting</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Brodie &#124; Professional Services Business Development Consulting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Another great comment Lee. I wasn&#039;t aware of those franchise figures - very interesting - and amazing ow much we&#039;ll all &quot;swallow&quot; without checking up.

Regarding your last point, I&#039;ve just started reading Karl Albrecht&#039;s &quot;Practical Intelligence&quot;. Among many great points, he talks about how society has many more &quot;sheep thinkers&quot; than &quot;deep thinkers&quot; - and that, sadly, the &quot;sheep thinkers&quot; are eaily manipulated because &quot;they like having clear and simple answers, value having firm opinions, an are utterly convinced they think for themselves.&quot;

I think this highlights a huge dilemma for educators and consultants. Do we inspire more confidence by being firmer in our statements (which means most people are more likely to take positive action as a result) or do we be more circumspect, allow people to make their own conculsions, but risk a weaker message and less action.

My experience is like yours - a firmer message has more chance of helping them. But essentially it&#039;s manipulative. There may even be a chance (slim for us, I know ;) ) that we&#039;re actually wrong, and we&#039;re misleading them. Perhaps their&#039;s a better way. One that doen&#039;t oversimplify in order to inspire. I wish I had such a method!

Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great comment Lee. I wasn&#8217;t aware of those franchise figures &#8211; very interesting &#8211; and amazing ow much we&#8217;ll all &#8220;swallow&#8221; without checking up.</p>
<p>Regarding your last point, I&#8217;ve just started reading Karl Albrecht&#8217;s &#8220;Practical Intelligence&#8221;. Among many great points, he talks about how society has many more &#8220;sheep thinkers&#8221; than &#8220;deep thinkers&#8221; &#8211; and that, sadly, the &#8220;sheep thinkers&#8221; are eaily manipulated because &#8220;they like having clear and simple answers, value having firm opinions, an are utterly convinced they think for themselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this highlights a huge dilemma for educators and consultants. Do we inspire more confidence by being firmer in our statements (which means most people are more likely to take positive action as a result) or do we be more circumspect, allow people to make their own conculsions, but risk a weaker message and less action.</p>
<p>My experience is like yours &#8211; a firmer message has more chance of helping them. But essentially it&#8217;s manipulative. There may even be a chance (slim for us, I know <img src='http://www.ianbrodie.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) that we&#8217;re actually wrong, and we&#8217;re misleading them. Perhaps their&#8217;s a better way. One that doen&#8217;t oversimplify in order to inspire. I wish I had such a method!</p>
<p>Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Duncan</title>
		<link>http://www.ianbrodie.com/strategy/the-myth-of-goal-setting/comment-page-1/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sales-excellence.co.uk/?p=59#comment-101</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian,

I really enjoyed your post, I like to research facts and data behind studies too and like you, have read up a little on Mehrabian&#039;s study.  However, I haven&#039;t read up on the goals study - in fact, I was trained by &quot;the world&#039;s largest business coaching organisation&quot; and they do state a lot of figures as facts.

Another &quot;fact&quot; that&#039;s often stated is that 90% of franchises are successful after 5 years and that 80% of other startup businesses go bust within 12 months.  On the face of it, it appears to make sense.  However, if you do a bit of digging the numbers simply don&#039;t exist to back up the study.  I know - I&#039;ve done the digging.

The best figures I could find come from the International Franchise Research Centre, a part of the University of Westminster in London if I recall correctly.  They suggest that a franchise is marginally less likely to succeed over 6 years than a non-franchise business with similar funding.  Makes interesting reading, if somewhat dry.

I think part of the challenge is that there is so much written these days that we have to accept some of it at face value and, while it&#039;s good to say &quot;I believe this figures to be accurate&quot;, it doesn&#039;t always make good educational content if we&#039;re always qualifying what we say.

The idea of having goals in life as a positive way of achieving more than you could without is a great example of this.  I didn&#039;t know that there was no such study, although I have read the &quot;facts&quot; of the story in various articles and papers, including one from a large consultancy based in London.

There&#039;s a whole industry based on the idea of getting clear goals and keeping yourself focussed on them.  The concept of The Law of Attraction is precisely this idea of having a goal and thinking about it, in a positive way, on a frequent basis.

For me, the goal when working with a client or classroom full of clients is to educate and inspire them in order to achieve the results they desire.  In the same way that believing in Father Christmas is something that gets kids motivated and excited, belief in the power of goals can help people achieve extra-ordinary things.

I don&#039;t quote the stats as per the non-existant Harvard study, but I do make sure that clients have clear goals that excite and inspire them.  Otherwise, it&#039;s just a case of getting out of bed every day and turning the handle for &quot;another day at the office&quot;.

Hmm, I&#039;m possibly rambling a bit here!  I suppose in summary, I&#039;m agreeing with the sentiment of your comments, but I&#039;m not so quick to condemn useful presentations that help people to get more out of their lives than they currently are doing.  Obviously I&#039;d prefer facts, but vaguely saying &quot;I believe in this and it might help you to go along with it too&quot; isn&#039;t going to inspire the same level of confidence as quoting specific figures.

Of course, if you&#039;re trying to educate clients about stats, that&#039;s the right thing to do.

On the other hand, if your role is to lift your client&#039;s performance to a whole new level, then using figures you believe to be accurate without hedging your words around it has a better chance of helping them to help themselves.  Of course, that&#039;s just a personal belief ;-)

Thanks for a thought provoking blog entry, excellent stuff.

Cheers,

Lee Duncan
&quot;People don&#039;t go into business just to survive, but that&#039;s what so many end up doing&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian,</p>
<p>I really enjoyed your post, I like to research facts and data behind studies too and like you, have read up a little on Mehrabian&#8217;s study.  However, I haven&#8217;t read up on the goals study &#8211; in fact, I was trained by &#8220;the world&#8217;s largest business coaching organisation&#8221; and they do state a lot of figures as facts.</p>
<p>Another &#8220;fact&#8221; that&#8217;s often stated is that 90% of franchises are successful after 5 years and that 80% of other startup businesses go bust within 12 months.  On the face of it, it appears to make sense.  However, if you do a bit of digging the numbers simply don&#8217;t exist to back up the study.  I know &#8211; I&#8217;ve done the digging.</p>
<p>The best figures I could find come from the International Franchise Research Centre, a part of the University of Westminster in London if I recall correctly.  They suggest that a franchise is marginally less likely to succeed over 6 years than a non-franchise business with similar funding.  Makes interesting reading, if somewhat dry.</p>
<p>I think part of the challenge is that there is so much written these days that we have to accept some of it at face value and, while it&#8217;s good to say &#8220;I believe this figures to be accurate&#8221;, it doesn&#8217;t always make good educational content if we&#8217;re always qualifying what we say.</p>
<p>The idea of having goals in life as a positive way of achieving more than you could without is a great example of this.  I didn&#8217;t know that there was no such study, although I have read the &#8220;facts&#8221; of the story in various articles and papers, including one from a large consultancy based in London.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a whole industry based on the idea of getting clear goals and keeping yourself focussed on them.  The concept of The Law of Attraction is precisely this idea of having a goal and thinking about it, in a positive way, on a frequent basis.</p>
<p>For me, the goal when working with a client or classroom full of clients is to educate and inspire them in order to achieve the results they desire.  In the same way that believing in Father Christmas is something that gets kids motivated and excited, belief in the power of goals can help people achieve extra-ordinary things.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t quote the stats as per the non-existant Harvard study, but I do make sure that clients have clear goals that excite and inspire them.  Otherwise, it&#8217;s just a case of getting out of bed every day and turning the handle for &#8220;another day at the office&#8221;.</p>
<p>Hmm, I&#8217;m possibly rambling a bit here!  I suppose in summary, I&#8217;m agreeing with the sentiment of your comments, but I&#8217;m not so quick to condemn useful presentations that help people to get more out of their lives than they currently are doing.  Obviously I&#8217;d prefer facts, but vaguely saying &#8220;I believe in this and it might help you to go along with it too&#8221; isn&#8217;t going to inspire the same level of confidence as quoting specific figures.</p>
<p>Of course, if you&#8217;re trying to educate clients about stats, that&#8217;s the right thing to do.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if your role is to lift your client&#8217;s performance to a whole new level, then using figures you believe to be accurate without hedging your words around it has a better chance of helping them to help themselves.  Of course, that&#8217;s just a personal belief <img src='http://www.ianbrodie.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks for a thought provoking blog entry, excellent stuff.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Lee Duncan<br />
&#8220;People don&#8217;t go into business just to survive, but that&#8217;s what so many end up doing&#8221;</p>
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